Hand to hand and moral tests

Specifically for question/clarifications referencing the CoE rule book

Hand to hand and moral tests

Postby Briselance » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:54 am

Hi,

I had a situation I couldn't resolve in some games.

B & C are friendly units

B____C
A

B & A are engaged in a hand-to-hand. B wins the hand-to-hand, A makes a retreat and disrupted result when it takes a moral test. But, during the beginning of the next turn, unit C fails to rally and continues to flee, so B must take a moral test. It loses it by one, making a retreat and disrupted result.

So, A can stay engaged with B. But the question is : does it modify something for the next hand-to-hand ? Who strikes first ? Is B still considered as the winner ?
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Re: Hand to hand and moral tests

Postby Darren Smith » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:28 am

From what the rules read (p.55) B still strikes first, B won the previous round of combat so strike first against A.
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Re: Hand to hand and moral tests

Postby Stuart at GEG » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:56 pm

No, B has to retreat! Remember that these tests would be taken at the start of the player's turn.
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Re: Hand to hand and moral tests

Postby Briselance » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:43 pm

Yes, I know that, but A can pursue even if the test is taken during the Order Phase ?

Following the rules, I understand as Darren Smith that B strikes first (if it stay engaged ! :D ). But logically, I find weird that the winner still strikes first, even after a retreat during the Order Phase.
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Re: Hand to hand and moral tests

Postby lerostratos » Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:34 pm

I agree : if a unit, because of a failed moral test, has to retreat, it lost its "impetus" and the unit that follow should strike first if its hth is better or simultaneously.
I think follow-up is common when you won combat, the special case of a follow up of a unit that lost combat but followed because of a failed moral test of the winner, deserves clarification.
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Re: Hand to hand and moral tests

Postby Darren Smith » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:36 am

Unless they lose a round of combat or the opponent are similarly armed, PIKES also strike first. So if 'B' was armed with Pikes and won the combat, would you still say they will strike second against the opponent :?: 'A' (and the player) knows the consequences of following up a dangerous foe in both examples so i would try to test against it (unless 'A' is Warband and then your stuffed!) and this is one of those tactical considerations you may have to make.
So I think it’s an entirely reasonable rule as it is and lets not assume just because any unit fails a test it loses the ability to strike first. It could after all have failed by zero and just ‘pushed back’. :P
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Re: Hand to hand and moral tests

Postby lerostratos » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:44 am

Of course B strikes first if it is equiped with pikes, no doubt about this.
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Re: Hand to hand and moral tests

Postby Darren Smith » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:31 pm

What Briselance is trying to suggest (i think) is that just because a unit fails a test he feels it wrong to automatically strike first , overriding the fact it won the previous round or its armed with such weapons as Pikes. I think the rule fine as it is IMHO. :)
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Re: Hand to hand and moral tests

Postby Stuart at GEG » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:43 pm

Briselance wrote:Yes, I know that, but A can pursue even if the test is taken during the Order Phase ?

Following the rules, I understand as Darren Smith that B strikes first (if it stay engaged ! :D ). But logically, I find weird that the winner still strikes first, even after a retreat during the Order Phase.


Ok, let me know if I am understanding everything.

B wins combat but fails a ML test in the Orders phase and retreats.
A cannot pursue. It did not win the combat (see Pursuit, pg 68).
Therefore, both units are disengaged.
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